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		<title>Comment on Cicadas are back and so is the debt ceiling by Philip Diehl</title>
		<link>http://monetaryrealism.com/cicadas-are-back-and-so-is-the-debt-ceiling/#comment-18918</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Diehl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 13:53:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://monetaryrealism.com/?p=2546#comment-18918</guid>
		<description>The Fed prefers bills for several reasons: as you say, for the seigniorage they book, because coins are heavier and therefore more costly to ship than bills, and because its customers, banks, prefer bills.

But coins return more to the Treasury than bills do. While coins are more expensive to produce, bills wear out faster--typically, 15 times faster for the dollar bill. (There&#039;s sort of an interesting story here about how the Fed has manipulated this estimate recently.) Moreover, a surprising fraction of coins are never returned to Treasury to be melted, instead being collected, carried abroad by travelers, accidentally ending up in landfills.  Coins never returned to Treasury represent a no-interest loan to the Treasury in perpetuity (at least that&#039;s how the Mint always described it, and to my knowledge we weren&#039;t challenged on it. You all might have a different assessment based on the secondary effects on reserves, etc.)

My point is that coins return more to the treasury than bills do. By undermining the circulation of a dollar coin and legislation that would eliminate the dollar bill to force circulation of the dollar coin, the Fed is pursuing its institutional interests over the broader interests of taxpayers. 

Some, typically lobbyists for Crain Paper which produces the paper/cloth for the bills, argue against eliminating the bill because a majority of Americans prefer the bill. But polls which first inform respondents of the savings in substituting a dollar coin for the bill find a majority support eliminating the bill.

Virtually all Western governments long ago eliminated their lowest denomination bill in favor a a similarly denominated coin, with no problems. The rub here is that the decision usually rested with the central bank, not parliament. In the US, Congress must act. Good luck with that. The primary obstacle has been the power of the Massachusetts (where Crain has its HQ) delegation on the two committees with jurisdiction over currency. But even now with Barney Frank gone from his chairmanship of House Financial Services, I doubt the dollar coin folks can move their bill.

This was probably more of an answer than you bargained for. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Fed prefers bills for several reasons: as you say, for the seigniorage they book, because coins are heavier and therefore more costly to ship than bills, and because its customers, banks, prefer bills.</p>
<p>But coins return more to the Treasury than bills do. While coins are more expensive to produce, bills wear out faster&#8211;typically, 15 times faster for the dollar bill. (There&#8217;s sort of an interesting story here about how the Fed has manipulated this estimate recently.) Moreover, a surprising fraction of coins are never returned to Treasury to be melted, instead being collected, carried abroad by travelers, accidentally ending up in landfills.  Coins never returned to Treasury represent a no-interest loan to the Treasury in perpetuity (at least that&#8217;s how the Mint always described it, and to my knowledge we weren&#8217;t challenged on it. You all might have a different assessment based on the secondary effects on reserves, etc.)</p>
<p>My point is that coins return more to the treasury than bills do. By undermining the circulation of a dollar coin and legislation that would eliminate the dollar bill to force circulation of the dollar coin, the Fed is pursuing its institutional interests over the broader interests of taxpayers. </p>
<p>Some, typically lobbyists for Crain Paper which produces the paper/cloth for the bills, argue against eliminating the bill because a majority of Americans prefer the bill. But polls which first inform respondents of the savings in substituting a dollar coin for the bill find a majority support eliminating the bill.</p>
<p>Virtually all Western governments long ago eliminated their lowest denomination bill in favor a a similarly denominated coin, with no problems. The rub here is that the decision usually rested with the central bank, not parliament. In the US, Congress must act. Good luck with that. The primary obstacle has been the power of the Massachusetts (where Crain has its HQ) delegation on the two committees with jurisdiction over currency. But even now with Barney Frank gone from his chairmanship of House Financial Services, I doubt the dollar coin folks can move their bill.</p>
<p>This was probably more of an answer than you bargained for. <img src='http://monetaryrealism.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Cicadas are back and so is the debt ceiling by stone</title>
		<link>http://monetaryrealism.com/cicadas-are-back-and-so-is-the-debt-ceiling/#comment-18917</link>
		<dc:creator>stone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 07:03:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://monetaryrealism.com/?p=2546#comment-18917</guid>
		<description>Philip Diehl, you&#039;ve made the case that the Fed wants to use dollar bills not dollar coins because the seigniorage from bills goes to the Fed whilst it doesn&#039;t from coins. It is interesting that the Fed cares about that. In principle all Fed profits get passed on to the treasury anyway don&#039;t they? I guess the seigniorage from bills can get diverted towards institutional expansion of the Fed - spending the money on employing staff to provide educational material on the web etc etc. BUT isn&#039;t the same true for the mint? If hypothetically all US monetary base were produced  as minted coins then presumably the mint would feel justified in expanding the mint&#039;s expenses- employing more staff -posting charts on the web etc like the Fed now does. I don&#039;t see why one is seen as being more costly for the public than the other. Is the mint inherently a more frugal institution and is the fed really so wasteful? Am I missing something? You weren&#039;t simply saying that metal coins are cheaper to manufacture than paper is were you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Philip Diehl, you&#8217;ve made the case that the Fed wants to use dollar bills not dollar coins because the seigniorage from bills goes to the Fed whilst it doesn&#8217;t from coins. It is interesting that the Fed cares about that. In principle all Fed profits get passed on to the treasury anyway don&#8217;t they? I guess the seigniorage from bills can get diverted towards institutional expansion of the Fed &#8211; spending the money on employing staff to provide educational material on the web etc etc. BUT isn&#8217;t the same true for the mint? If hypothetically all US monetary base were produced  as minted coins then presumably the mint would feel justified in expanding the mint&#8217;s expenses- employing more staff -posting charts on the web etc like the Fed now does. I don&#8217;t see why one is seen as being more costly for the public than the other. Is the mint inherently a more frugal institution and is the fed really so wasteful? Am I missing something? You weren&#8217;t simply saying that metal coins are cheaper to manufacture than paper is were you?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Cicadas are back and so is the debt ceiling by Philip Diehl</title>
		<link>http://monetaryrealism.com/cicadas-are-back-and-so-is-the-debt-ceiling/#comment-18916</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Diehl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 04:39:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://monetaryrealism.com/?p=2546#comment-18916</guid>
		<description>Can you believe it? We persuaded our appropriators to take us off appropriations. They also exempted us from all federal procurement regulations. Then our union endorsed our proposal to eliminate most federal personnel rules and Congress would have agreed, but OPM nixed it in conference committee.  Thanks, beo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can you believe it? We persuaded our appropriators to take us off appropriations. They also exempted us from all federal procurement regulations. Then our union endorsed our proposal to eliminate most federal personnel rules and Congress would have agreed, but OPM nixed it in conference committee.  Thanks, beo.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Cicadas are back and so is the debt ceiling by beowulf</title>
		<link>http://monetaryrealism.com/cicadas-are-back-and-so-is-the-debt-ceiling/#comment-18915</link>
		<dc:creator>beowulf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 02:15:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://monetaryrealism.com/?p=2546#comment-18915</guid>
		<description>The Mint is an odd duck in that its one of the few federal agencies whose operations aren&#039;t funded by congressional appropriations.  After all, it almost literally has a license to print money. 

IIRC Philip had something to do with that. Prior to his golden age ( OK, golden dollar age), I believe the Mint had play &quot; mother may I?&quot; with Congress every year like the rest of the Executive Branch..
http://www.usmint.gov/pressroom/?action=press_release&amp;id=121</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Mint is an odd duck in that its one of the few federal agencies whose operations aren&#8217;t funded by congressional appropriations.  After all, it almost literally has a license to print money. </p>
<p>IIRC Philip had something to do with that. Prior to his golden age ( OK, golden dollar age), I believe the Mint had play &#8221; mother may I?&#8221; with Congress every year like the rest of the Executive Branch..<br />
<a href="http://www.usmint.gov/pressroom/?action=press_release&#038;id=121" rel="nofollow">http://www.usmint.gov/pressroom/?action=press_release&#038;id=121</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Cicadas are back and so is the debt ceiling by joe bongiovanni</title>
		<link>http://monetaryrealism.com/cicadas-are-back-and-so-is-the-debt-ceiling/#comment-18914</link>
		<dc:creator>joe bongiovanni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 00:54:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://monetaryrealism.com/?p=2546#comment-18914</guid>
		<description>All very true with regard the &#039;cost-of-money&#039; options. 
But certain ironies present when the lines cross between the reasonable needs of government and factors affected by the capital markets.
If a TDC is accepted as government creating and issuing the currency, then its nature is to be exempt from reserve basis considerations.
It&#039;s public money creation, and issuance.
It is exogenous in nature, and will thus remain in existence until removed by the government, or it will be around for a hundred years like the Greenbacks.
There is no need for that money to be reserved against anything.
It should be issued as the public&#039;s wealth, providing permanent exchange media at zero cost to the taxpayer in any form for the issue.
No cost.
No reserves.
Public money.
Could be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All very true with regard the &#8216;cost-of-money&#8217; options.<br />
But certain ironies present when the lines cross between the reasonable needs of government and factors affected by the capital markets.<br />
If a TDC is accepted as government creating and issuing the currency, then its nature is to be exempt from reserve basis considerations.<br />
It&#8217;s public money creation, and issuance.<br />
It is exogenous in nature, and will thus remain in existence until removed by the government, or it will be around for a hundred years like the Greenbacks.<br />
There is no need for that money to be reserved against anything.<br />
It should be issued as the public&#8217;s wealth, providing permanent exchange media at zero cost to the taxpayer in any form for the issue.<br />
No cost.<br />
No reserves.<br />
Public money.<br />
Could be.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Cicadas are back and so is the debt ceiling by Philip Diehl</title>
		<link>http://monetaryrealism.com/cicadas-are-back-and-so-is-the-debt-ceiling/#comment-18913</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Diehl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 May 2013 19:17:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://monetaryrealism.com/?p=2546#comment-18913</guid>
		<description>You got it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You got it.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Cicadas are back and so is the debt ceiling by JKH</title>
		<link>http://monetaryrealism.com/cicadas-are-back-and-so-is-the-debt-ceiling/#comment-18912</link>
		<dc:creator>JKH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 May 2013 14:58:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://monetaryrealism.com/?p=2546#comment-18912</guid>
		<description>So I looked at the balance sheet of the Mint and it seems to confirm what I said.

All Mint cash is held with Treasury, which is an account internal to the government balance sheet as a whole.

Any cheque written on this account and paid to a supplier must clear through the banking system in order for the recipient and recipient’s bank to get credit, and in doing so it will clear directly back to the TGA account at the Fed, which will be debited, while the payee’s bank will be credited with reserves. So all external disbursements and receipts by the Mint must clear through TGA at the Fed, immediately, with cash effect in the TGA, immediately.

The periodic payment of Mint profits from PEF to the General Fund looks entirely internal to me. I’m assuming reasonably I think that this sort of remittance involves a credit (asset reduction) to the Mint’s cash balance with Treasury, and a debit (funding reduction) to what seems to be classified as “Cumulative Results of Operations - Earmarked Funds”, which seems to be the analogue of a corporate retained earnings position on the liability side of the balance sheet.

Those two accounting entries on Mint books would be swept through to corresponding entries on the Treasury General Fund books. But because all these accounts are internal to Treasury and the Mint, this has no impact whatsoever on Treasury’s cash balance at the Fed, known as the Treasury General Account. All impacts on TGA occur at the same time as any external disbursements and receipts of the Mint are processed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So I looked at the balance sheet of the Mint and it seems to confirm what I said.</p>
<p>All Mint cash is held with Treasury, which is an account internal to the government balance sheet as a whole.</p>
<p>Any cheque written on this account and paid to a supplier must clear through the banking system in order for the recipient and recipient’s bank to get credit, and in doing so it will clear directly back to the TGA account at the Fed, which will be debited, while the payee’s bank will be credited with reserves. So all external disbursements and receipts by the Mint must clear through TGA at the Fed, immediately, with cash effect in the TGA, immediately.</p>
<p>The periodic payment of Mint profits from PEF to the General Fund looks entirely internal to me. I’m assuming reasonably I think that this sort of remittance involves a credit (asset reduction) to the Mint’s cash balance with Treasury, and a debit (funding reduction) to what seems to be classified as “Cumulative Results of Operations &#8211; Earmarked Funds”, which seems to be the analogue of a corporate retained earnings position on the liability side of the balance sheet.</p>
<p>Those two accounting entries on Mint books would be swept through to corresponding entries on the Treasury General Fund books. But because all these accounts are internal to Treasury and the Mint, this has no impact whatsoever on Treasury’s cash balance at the Fed, known as the Treasury General Account. All impacts on TGA occur at the same time as any external disbursements and receipts of the Mint are processed.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Cicadas are back and so is the debt ceiling by JKH</title>
		<link>http://monetaryrealism.com/cicadas-are-back-and-so-is-the-debt-ceiling/#comment-18910</link>
		<dc:creator>JKH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 May 2013 22:08:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://monetaryrealism.com/?p=2546#comment-18910</guid>
		<description>I guess my point is that such a cheque can&#039;t clear through the banking system unless it clears through the TGA - because the PEF is not an account at the Fed.  The PEF is just an internal account between the Mint and Treasury - at least that&#039;s my current understanding of it - if its not, then don&#039;t even bother reading the rest of this, because then I&#039;m wrong for sure.

But if that is the case, then while the cheque does cause a debit to the PEF balance, it also must also clear against the TGA simultaneously .

That happens because three things occur at once - debit to Mint PEF asset balance; debit to Treasury PEF liability balance; and debit to Treasury TGA asset balance. At least, that&#039;s my guess at this point.

I can show you the full consolidated government bookkeeping I imagine for this, if you&#039;re interested in my take, but it sounds like you&#039;re rejecting what I&#039;m saying. Although you may not be considering the possibility that what I describe can be quite consistent with the cheque also being evidenced in a debit to the PEF. It&#039;s just that that part of it is not the whole story, IMO. And it also changes the interpretation of how Mint profits get sweeped into Treasury proper. They don&#039;t actually sweep into TGA the way I see it.

But if you&#039;re quite comfortable I&#039;m wrong on this, I&#039;ll just drop it, no problem at all - I can pick it up sometime down the road if it turns out I don&#039;t understand it here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess my point is that such a cheque can&#8217;t clear through the banking system unless it clears through the TGA &#8211; because the PEF is not an account at the Fed.  The PEF is just an internal account between the Mint and Treasury &#8211; at least that&#8217;s my current understanding of it &#8211; if its not, then don&#8217;t even bother reading the rest of this, because then I&#8217;m wrong for sure.</p>
<p>But if that is the case, then while the cheque does cause a debit to the PEF balance, it also must also clear against the TGA simultaneously .</p>
<p>That happens because three things occur at once &#8211; debit to Mint PEF asset balance; debit to Treasury PEF liability balance; and debit to Treasury TGA asset balance. At least, that&#8217;s my guess at this point.</p>
<p>I can show you the full consolidated government bookkeeping I imagine for this, if you&#8217;re interested in my take, but it sounds like you&#8217;re rejecting what I&#8217;m saying. Although you may not be considering the possibility that what I describe can be quite consistent with the cheque also being evidenced in a debit to the PEF. It&#8217;s just that that part of it is not the whole story, IMO. And it also changes the interpretation of how Mint profits get sweeped into Treasury proper. They don&#8217;t actually sweep into TGA the way I see it.</p>
<p>But if you&#8217;re quite comfortable I&#8217;m wrong on this, I&#8217;ll just drop it, no problem at all &#8211; I can pick it up sometime down the road if it turns out I don&#8217;t understand it here.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Cicadas are back and so is the debt ceiling by Philip Diehl</title>
		<link>http://monetaryrealism.com/cicadas-are-back-and-so-is-the-debt-ceiling/#comment-18909</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Diehl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 May 2013 21:49:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://monetaryrealism.com/?p=2546#comment-18909</guid>
		<description>It writes a check drawing on the Public  Enterprise Fund. All revenue is deposited to the PEF and all expenses are paid out of it, and the remained goes into the TGA with different accounting treatment for seigniorage and numismatic profit, as we&#039;ve discussed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It writes a check drawing on the Public  Enterprise Fund. All revenue is deposited to the PEF and all expenses are paid out of it, and the remained goes into the TGA with different accounting treatment for seigniorage and numismatic profit, as we&#8217;ve discussed.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Cicadas are back and so is the debt ceiling by stone</title>
		<link>http://monetaryrealism.com/cicadas-are-back-and-so-is-the-debt-ceiling/#comment-18908</link>
		<dc:creator>stone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 May 2013 20:46:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://monetaryrealism.com/?p=2546#comment-18908</guid>
		<description>The bizarre thing is that in the UK ultra long (50year) bonds were fairly recently introduced because the finance industry asked for them and made the claim that they would supposedly  ward off deflation,
http://www.jdawiseman.com/papers/finmkts/long-consultation.pdf
&quot;Issuance of long-dated government debt helps stabilise the economy. If the economy were to fall into deflation, the government would wish to push money into the private sector, and having long-dated government debt outstanding would achieve this automatically. (The price of the debt goes up, supporting financial entities’ regulatory ratios, and allowing entities to raise money by repoing the now-above-par debt to the central bank via its counterparties.) 
The government would not have to worry about its own solvency, as, in extremis, it could always order the money printed: the UK government has monetary sovereignty. (This assumes, as is believed by financial market participants and by most British and foreign politicians, that the UK is unlikely to join EMU.)
10.But equally, if inflation were to increase, there would be a transfer of wealth to thegovernment from the private sector. 
11. These effects, in a small way, stabilise the economy. This effect would be particularly large in the deflationary scenario, and Japan has shown that any help in avoiding or escaping deflation should be welcomed. &quot;

IMO this is so wrong. It creates a DESIRE and political impetus for an economic depression. It is phenomenal how these ultra-long  treasury bonds surge in price whenever the economy looks like it is taking a nose dive. Money flows in to ride the gilt bubble and out of the real economy. The whole set up just looks like the government has been commandeered to transfer as much as possible to the finance industry. 
I don&#039;t understand why well meaning people advocate re-introducing perpetual consol bonds. They have just the same political effect  - creating a constituency that wants economic depression.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The bizarre thing is that in the UK ultra long (50year) bonds were fairly recently introduced because the finance industry asked for them and made the claim that they would supposedly  ward off deflation,<br />
<a href="http://www.jdawiseman.com/papers/finmkts/long-consultation.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.jdawiseman.com/papers/finmkts/long-consultation.pdf</a><br />
&#8220;Issuance of long-dated government debt helps stabilise the economy. If the economy were to fall into deflation, the government would wish to push money into the private sector, and having long-dated government debt outstanding would achieve this automatically. (The price of the debt goes up, supporting financial entities’ regulatory ratios, and allowing entities to raise money by repoing the now-above-par debt to the central bank via its counterparties.)<br />
The government would not have to worry about its own solvency, as, in extremis, it could always order the money printed: the UK government has monetary sovereignty. (This assumes, as is believed by financial market participants and by most British and foreign politicians, that the UK is unlikely to join EMU.)<br />
10.But equally, if inflation were to increase, there would be a transfer of wealth to thegovernment from the private sector.<br />
11. These effects, in a small way, stabilise the economy. This effect would be particularly large in the deflationary scenario, and Japan has shown that any help in avoiding or escaping deflation should be welcomed. &#8221;</p>
<p>IMO this is so wrong. It creates a DESIRE and political impetus for an economic depression. It is phenomenal how these ultra-long  treasury bonds surge in price whenever the economy looks like it is taking a nose dive. Money flows in to ride the gilt bubble and out of the real economy. The whole set up just looks like the government has been commandeered to transfer as much as possible to the finance industry.<br />
I don&#8217;t understand why well meaning people advocate re-introducing perpetual consol bonds. They have just the same political effect  &#8211; creating a constituency that wants economic depression.</p>
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