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Chesapeake’s Weird Bonds: Borrow $$$, Pay Natural Gas Interest
Chris Cook believes the Saudis are doing the same thing with oil
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Scumbag Facebook Co-Founder Saverin Flips the Bird to the People who made him $2.3 Billion
Posted from Diigo. The rest of my favorite links are here.
Saverin was born in the US and lives in Singapore. Not exactly like an American native bailing.
Ooops, should be Saverin was NOT born in the US (but rather Brazil).
True, but you’d think making a few billion off the population would make you think a little about giving some back. And he did choose to go after U.S. citizenship for some reason.
It was very useful for him when starting and building facebook, but now the money is coming in, hes ditching it.
I am not a firm believer in high taxes. If an american citizen did this in a place like Hungary or some African country, it would be considered totally offensive.
Maybe not when you’ve just spent the last year being persuaded how amazingly brilliant you are in every way by salivating Wall St bankers. That probably does something to one’s ego and sense of entitlement.
“Not exactly like an American native bailing.”
True, it’s MUCH worse. An American native can’t choose his parents or birthplace, Saverin chose to take the naturalization oath. DHS can (and should) refuse to ever give the rat bastard an entry visa in the future.
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Naturalization Oath of Allegiance to the United States of America
“I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.”
Quite right. They need to come down on him like a ton of bricks. I’m sick of tax evasion. Everyone needs to pay their share.
“DHS can (and should) refuse to ever give the rat bastard an entry visa in the future.”
That I agree with. He made a choice, and choices have consequences. In fact, that should be made explicit for all the rich who are supposedly lining up to do the same thing due to “unfairly” high taxes.
Seems to me that the only way to deal with this issue (not Saverin in particular), is to revisit free capital flow. As long as money can move at will it will. Saverin is just a blip on the screen in comparison with all the offshore accounts and legal ploys for tax evasion — although there is plenty of illegal tax evasion, too.
This is a big reason that I am not very concerned with Saverin as an individual. It may be outrageous, but he is taking advantage of the law. If people regard this as outrageous, change the law. Oh, right, the tax evaders control the lawmakers.
I believe in minimizing the taxes I pay, but not in breaking at least the spirit of the law because of greed (or because the American govt or America the country “deserves” it somehow). As I said, it’s unethical. And yes, there needs to be a massive clamp-down on tax evasion because we simply can’t let people think they can stiff the rest of society with impunity.
“It may be outrageous, but he is taking advantage of the law.”
True.
Also with that, technically, its tax avoidance, not tax evasion.
Okay, there needs to be a massive clamp-down on tax avoidance. And hair-splitting.
:p
consider it a Monday morning blood pressure test
I’m up 1.7% this morning. My blood pressure is fine
excellent
just pay your taxes if you close out
I’m surprised by the comments on the Saverin article. Americans are so down on themselves right now, it blows me away. It’s by far the strongest, most free, most democratic, and most powerful nation on Earth. I believe the US will shortly be in the position it was after WWII: pretty much the only economy left standing. Americans need to get over their self-pity, tax back the money that’s been stolen by the bankers, reenact Glass-Steagall and get back to being awesome.
Hulk Smash:
Awesome.
Flips the bird?? I would be long gone if I were him too with the ridiculous US taxes. Ive done extensive research on places to relocate to if things get much worse here and I think Singapore is a great place to live.
There are many great places to live in the world.
And yet he chose Singapore, one of the more boring countries I visited in SE Asia. Perhaps I just wasn’t rich enough to appreciate its alleged glories, since I suspect they’re mostly financial in nature.
In fact, it’s one of the most boring countries I’ve ever visited, period. Hell, Canada — where I live — isn’t exactly the most exciting nation on Earth, but at least it has a beautiful natural environment. Singapore is a crowded, expensive playground for spoiled children, so Saverin and Zuckerberg would likely both feel right at home.
(There is another Singapore, of course: the one where all the servants live. But no-one talks about them much.)
So you don’t believe that his being located in the US had anything to do with his ability to make billions of dollars at an Internet startup? You think he could’ve done the same thing in these amazingly innovative low-tax countries to which you refer? Those are countries people run to *after* they’ve made their money in mature democratic nations and want to evade taxes. Why didn’t/couldn’t he start Facebook in Brazil or Singapore? Should he have no moral responsibility to give back to the society that helped him build his wealth?
It’s most un-American. “Flips the bird” is exactly right.
Hey, if the tax structure is such that this is allowed with minimum penalty, why not take advantage of it like any other tax break. I admit I would look at it in an emotionally different way if he were a native, but he is not. He used the laws to his advantage. I don’t see the problem here being with him. If there is a problem it is with the laws that permitted what many see to see as unfairly gaming the system. Close the loophole.
I strongly disagree. There’s a difference between what’s legal and what’s ethical. We can’t — and shouldn’t! — make laws covering every single ethical transgression. People are expected to behave ethically even though it is not specifically forbidden by law — that’s kind of the point of having the distinction.
I believe it’s unethical to take advantage of a society structured such that you’re able to make a huge fortune in a few years and then flee the country when the time comes to help pay for that society. I believe it is shameful behavior, and it being legal does not in any way diminish that.
I’d go as far as to say that I don’t see much moral difference between what he’s trying to do and theft. He took something and now he’s trying not to pay for it.
Revenue funds government’s ability to spend when the federal govt is the currency issuer? Now I can see that the state and municipality of his residence might feel stiffed if taxes were avoided there.
Revenue helps reduce inflation for the rest of the population. So, yes. It does matter, even for a currency issuer.
Hmm. Better tell the Fed to start fighting inflation. They are trying desperately to get some going so that the country doesn’t slip into deflation. Looked at the yield curve for real interest rates lately? The real interest rate is negative out to the 10yr. This guy is actually helping us out!
Haha. Yes, I’m sure he’s trying to help the country monetarily. That’s very sweet of him
If I were Obama I’d tax him anyway, prevent him returning to the US (ever) and force him to sell whatever USD-denominated financial assets he owns, including his Facebook shares. Good riddance. Let’s encourage ethical behavior from capitalists. How long has it been since we were last seen as the good guys? Capitalism will destroy itself if we don’t make an example of selfish ingrates like Saverin.
From what I understand of his involvement with the creation of Facebook, it was mostly luck. He didn’t come to the US with the intention of starting Facebook and it wasn’t even his idea. He played a role and got himself some stock. He has no obligation to the US govt, beyond what he will pay as an exit tax. And the internet works across borders, Facebook could have been started from anywhere that doesn’t have censorship. So no, I don’t think he has a moral responsibility to “give back”. In fact, given that about 80% of federal spending goes to our bloated welfare state and defense industry, I don’t think anyone should feel obligated to pay much in taxes.
Yes, but it wasn’t started anywhere, it was started in America. And he came to America for a reason. Now he needs to pay his dues like a good citizen, rather than forcing his customers to pay his bills for him via increased taxation or inflation.
He’s not getting off free though, he’s stil going to have to pay a hefty exit tax based on the MTM value of his pre-IPO holdings. A still fairly big price to pay for a relatively short time in the US. You’re basically saying people shouldn’t be allowed to freely move around the globe unless they want to be lifetime tax slaves to the govt of the country they made money in. The amount of taxes he would have paid would be insignificant from a macro viewpoint and this is a time for increasing the deficit at any rate.
Who decides how much tax he should pay, him or the American people via Congress? Until the tax code is changed he owes what he owes, and he used a dirty, low-down, good-fer-nothin’ trick to weasel his way out of it. Cheating is wrong. We didn’t used to have to debate that.
Good move so far by Chesapeake with nat gas in free fall for years. At some point there is no way they can lose on the PV they’ve already racked up.